New version of Genesis

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
17 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

New version of Genesis

russellallen
Administrator
Hi guys,

I've uploaded a new Word version of Genesis to:

I've fixed up some spelling and punctuation typos, and included the changes discussed before that bottleofink raised (Thanks!)

As on the previous draft, I'm very interested in the low hanging fruit.  By that, I mean:

- spelling errors (the draft should be in standard US spelling)
- punctuation issues
- versification issues (it should correspond to NRSV versification. I will also prepare a version with JPS versification where it differs)

and, very importantly:

- language which is not in standard, grammatically correct English. Bonus points if it is a repeating pattern that can be fixed in multiple places!

I'm obviously also interested in translation issues, but don't want to get too bogged down in unresolvable questions. The translation should aim to correspond to the underlying text of the Westminster Leningrad Codex as found at http://www.tanach.us/Tanach.xml#Home unless otherwise noted. In practice, translation choices should be attested to in a mainstream English translation, such as the JPS 1985, NRSV, REB, TEV, CEV etc or in some mainstream scholarly context.   

Have fun!
Russell



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

Pleonic
This post was updated on .
Some thoughts on Genesis 1

1:1-5
=====
"The Beginning" (the heading)

Not to get into translation issues but the first words of vs. 1 notoriously
don't have a "the" and the current rendering implies preexistent matter, not an ultimate beginning. If
we keep this translation it might be better to use a heading like
"Creation," similar to the REB, NRSV, or NET.

(Vs.2) "..and while the earth was still unformed, etc."

Verses 1-4 are a very badly constructed sentence in English (though a
worthy stab at rendering one understanding of the Hebrew) that sort of
dribbles on and on with too many "ands" and clauses. It needs to be
tightened up to be clear to the average reader.

Also "deep" may not be the most understandable in vs. 2 ("The deep what?").
"Abyss" or at least "deep ocean" are probably better.

"Brooding" - When modern people (unless they are chicken farmers) say some
one is 'brooding', their first thought is of angry teenagers, sullen and
withdrawn. This will be misunderstood, and the Hebrew is generally rendered
as "moving" or "hovering" today (e.g., REB, HCSB, Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (2149), NET note).

Vss. 3-5 "and there was light," "and God saw..," "and he called," "and the
darkness," "and there was an evening and a morning..."

Too many 'ands' for proper English sentences, stemming from all those 'vav
consecutives' in the underlying Hebrew. Most should be eliminated.

Here are all these suggestions incorporated into the first five verses:

----------
1 In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth,
2 earth was still unformed and chaotic,
with darkness on the surface of the abyss,
and the spirit of God hovering over the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good. He separated the light from the
darkness, 5 calling the light Day and the darkness Night.
There was an evening and a morning, making the first day.

---------

*A few other comments: "There was an evening and a morning" sounds odd to
me.  Not sure it actually is.

*In the Hebrew God is very concise when He creates light: "Yehi or!" Perhaps
we could translate with English that has similar impact ("Light! Exist!")?

*What is the modern equivalent to describe what God does when He, "sees
light is good?" Just seeing, or possibly "deciding," "perceiving,"
"concluding?"

*Similarly, should we render that light is merely "good," or is it
"wonderful," "beautiful," "God saw how magnificent the light was."

On Dec 26, 2012 7:22 PM, "russellallen [via Open English Bible]" <
ml-node+s1080923n35h62@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> I've uploaded a new Word version of Genesis to:
>
> http://www.openenglishbible.org/oeb/current/OEB-Genesis-Current-US.doc
>
> I've fixed up some spelling and punctuation typos, and included the
> changes discussed before that bottleofink raised (Thanks!)
>
> As on the previous draft, I'm very interested in the low hanging fruit.
>  By that, I mean:
>
> - spelling errors (the draft should be in standard US spelling)
> - punctuation issues
> - versification issues (it should correspond to NRSV versification. I will
> also prepare a version with JPS versification where it differs)
>
> and, very importantly:
>
> - language which is not in standard, grammatically correct English. Bonus
> points if it is a repeating pattern that can be fixed in multiple places!
>
> I'm obviously also interested in translation issues, but don't want to get
> too bogged down in unresolvable questions. The translation should aim to
> correspond to the underlying text of the Westminster Leningrad Codex as
> found at http://www.tanach.us/Tanach.xml#Home unless otherwise noted. In
> practice, translation choices should be attested to in a mainstream English
> translation, such as the JPS 1985, NRSV, REB, TEV, CEV etc or in some
> mainstream scholarly context.
>
>
> Have fun!
> Russell
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>  If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> below:
> http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35.html
>  To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email
> ml-node+s1080923n1h8@n5.nabble.com
> To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here<http://forum.openenglishbible.org/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=unsubscribe_by_code&node=1&code=amFjYXJ0ZXJAYXV0aGVudGljbGlnaHQub3JnfDF8ODc2Mzk4MzUz>
> .
> NAML<http://forum.openenglishbible.org/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml>
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

Pleonic
Some Thoughts on Genesis 1:5 - 31
==========================

(Vs. 5 ) "he called the light Day and the darkness Night" -- One can find naming sentences constructed this way in some Bibles, but in common English (US variety at least) the named noun is usually contained in

quotes. They are found that way in many modern Bibles as well (e.g., NET - God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” Also, HCSB, GNB, CEV, etc). This would also be done in vss. 8 and 10.


(Vss. 7 - 8) "And it was done..." "And God called..." "And there was..."  -- The numerous "ands" found in "Bible English" are hebraisms caused by the "vav consecutive," of course. We're used to them in the Authorized

Version but In ordinary English they constitute bad writing and should be pared back.  In these verses I suggest accomplishing this by changing "And God called..." to just "God called..."


(Vss. 9 - 10) -- Just a minor suggestion: We usually say "the land and the seas" rather than "the Earth and the seas." Perhaps more natural usage here would be, "....let the dry ground appear" (in vs. 9) and "God

called the dry ground "Land," and he called the gathered waters, "Seas."

Also, "Oceans" may be more appropriate than the usually smaller "seas," given the scope of this narrative.

Plus, 3 hebraic "ands" in vs. 10. I would amend to, "God called the dry ground 'Land,' the gathered waters he called 'Seas. And God saw that it was good."


(Vss. 11 - 12) -- We usually don't say the earth (or land) "put forth" or "brought forth" vegetation anymore, but something more like, "the land grew vegetation," or possibly "produced" it. The ESV has "sprouted."

More "ands:" "And God said...", "and trees that bear fruit," "And it was done," "And earth brought forth vegetation," "and trees," "And God saw..." -- Most of these don't read badly but I would suggest changing vs. 12

to, "So the earth (or land)" from "And the earth..."


(Vss. 16 - 18) "God made the stars also 17 and placed them in the dome of the sky to shed light upon the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, etc." -- Having "them" proximate to making the stars in this

new sentence makes it seem as though it is specifically the stars that "shed light," "rule," and "separate light from darkness," which is not the Hebrew's intent. One way to fix this without too much damage to the

rendering would be:

"And he made the stars. God placed all these lights in the dome of the sky to shed light upon the earth, etc."



(Vss. 18 - 19) "and to separate," "And God...," And there was an evening..." -- Three "ands" in a row. I'd recommend deleting the middle one to read: "God saw that it ( or perhaps, "this") was good."


(Vs. 21) -- Remove another extraneous "and:" Amend to just, "God created the great sea monsters..."


(Vs. 22) "fill the waters in the seas" is literally accurate but for a vernacular translation "fill the ocean depths" or some such would be more appropriate.
       
"Multiply" isn't used much these days. Perhaps the birds should "increase" or even "reproduce on the land" rather than "multiply on the earth."

The multiplying "ands:" The verse would read better if all 3 "ands" were removed, I think ("He blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful, increase, fill the ocean depths, and let the birds increase on the land.”


(Vs. 24) "Bring forth" again, this time regarding animals. Perhaps, "Let the earth produce (or generate?) all kinds of living creatures."

       
(Vs. 26) There seems to be nothing in this sentence corresponding to "according to our likeness." It should be changed to "Then God said, “Let us make humans in our image and likeness," or, more adventurously,

"Then God said, “Let us make humans who are images of us, who are like us.""

Based on the previous renderings this should probably be "birds of the sky" instead of "heavens."


(Vs. 27) I've mainly stuck to usage and grammer but this one is a translation thing. Where this verse translates "like himself" and "like God" the word is the same one translated "image" in the previous verse (tselem).

I'm not trying to debate the differences between that word and the one rendered "like" or "likeness" (demut), but just saying that in such a theologicaly important passage the renderings in vss. 26 and 27 should match.

One possible translation here would be, "So God created humans in his own image: in the image of God he created them. Male and female He created them."

Actually, my understanding is that "created... as his own image" might be better, but we can discuss that another time. ;)



 (Vs. 28) "Birds of the sky" instead of "birds of the heavens?"


(Vs. 29) "See," -- Personally I've always thought "see" was as out-of-place-sounding and less impressive than "Behold!" or "Lo" in a modern translation. When used in normal English it usually is a query: "See? I'm

giving you thus and such."  "Look" isn't much better. Since it's mainly used to get our attention, many Bibles dispense with it and get our attention more naturally. I like the way the NET does it here: "Then God said, “I

now give you every seed-bearing plant... " The REB is good too: " God also said, ‘Throughout the earth I give you all plants that bear seed..."

The REB phrasing is a good alternative to our translation's, "on the face of all the earth," too. Not that "on the face" is incorrect, but just another chance to move away from Bible-y language.

"It will be food for you" should be "They will be food for you" since it refers to two types of food.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

Pleonic
In reply to this post by russellallen


Some Thoughts on Genesis 2
========================

(Vss. 1-3) "The seventh day" is repeated too often for common English. Also, "and" follows a semicolon, which is a no-no because one of them is redundant in the sentence. You may want to remove the "and" after "seventh day" too for smoother reading. I'd suggest a change to:

"2 When on the seventh day God finished the work which he had done, he rested that day from all his work. 3 God blessed the seventh day, setting it apart, for in it he rested from all the creative work which he had done. "

(Vs.7) "moulded," US usage is "molded."

"Then the Lord God moulded man out of dust..." etc.

I read through the discussion of when to start calling ha-Adam or Adam "Adam" and agree with your solution of using the two meanings in a single sentence, although for the sake of reader comprehension I would contend it is better to start as early in the narrative as possible -- I.e., in 2:20.

My main question here though is: shouldn't this be rendered, as in chapter 1, "Then the Lord God moulded *a human* (or, the human) out of dust..." -- and so throughout the other instances of "ha-Adam?" In this chapter genders aren't distinguished till vs. 23. "Man" doesn't seem anymore accurate here than it is in 1:26-27.

(Vs. 8) "And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden..." A vav consecutive "and." Should be removed for better English style.

(Vs. 10) "..watered the garden; and..." Conjunction after a semicolon. Change to colon.

(Vs. 11) "... Pishon; which..." Not sure if this is UK usage. In US it's a comma before "which."

(Vs. 12) "... pure; and..." And" after a semicolon. Can be comma or deleted entirely.

(Vs. 13-14) "...the Gihon; which..." "...the Tigris; which..." Commas rather than semicolons -- in US, anyway.

"...heads toward the east of Asshur." -- FYI, NET, NRSV, NIV, CEB, HCSB, etc. translate this as Assyria.

(Vs. 19) "...what he would call them; and whatever he called..."  "And" after a semicolon. I'd recommend, "...what he would call them. Whatever he called..." 

(Vs. 20) "... and beasts; but for the man..." "But" after a semicolon. Make it a full stop and begin a new sentence with "But."

(Vs. 24) "... and the two become one." Nothing to translate "levasar." "One body" or the traditional "one flesh."

On Dec 26, 2012 7:22 PM, "russellallen [via Open English Bible]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi guys,

I've uploaded a new Word version of Genesis to:

I've fixed up some spelling and punctuation typos, and included the changes discussed before that bottleofink raised (Thanks!)

As on the previous draft, I'm very interested in the low hanging fruit.  By that, I mean:

- spelling errors (the draft should be in standard US spelling)
- punctuation issues
- versification issues (it should correspond to NRSV versification. I will also prepare a version with JPS versification where it differs)

and, very importantly:

- language which is not in standard, grammatically correct English. Bonus points if it is a repeating pattern that can be fixed in multiple places!

I'm obviously also interested in translation issues, but don't want to get too bogged down in unresolvable questions. The translation should aim to correspond to the underlying text of the Westminster Leningrad Codex as found at http://www.tanach.us/Tanach.xml#Home unless otherwise noted. In practice, translation choices should be attested to in a mainstream English translation, such as the JPS 1985, NRSV, REB, TEV, CEV etc or in some mainstream scholarly context.   

Have fun!
Russell






If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
NAML
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

russellallen
Administrator
This is really great stuff. Thanks.

I wonder if we can work out a better way to share bulk changes like these. Would it be easier to change the Word version?  Word (or OpenOffice) have a track changes function or the changed text could be highlighted. That might help show everyone the changes in context.

Best, Russell


On 02/01/2013, at 2:10 PM, Pleonic [via Open English Bible] <[hidden email]> wrote:


Some Thoughts on Genesis 2
========================

(Vss. 1-3) "The seventh day" is repeated too often for common English. Also, "and" follows a semicolon, which is a no-no because one of them is redundant in the sentence. You may want to remove the "and" after "seventh day" too for smoother reading. I'd suggest a change to:

"2 When on the seventh day God finished the work which he had done, he rested that day from all his work. 3 God blessed the seventh day, setting it apart, for in it he rested from all the creative work which he had done. "

(Vs.7) "moulded," US usage is "molded."

"Then the Lord God moulded man out of dust..." etc.

I read through the discussion of when to start calling ha-Adam or Adam "Adam" and agree with your solution of using the two meanings in a single sentence, although for the sake of reader comprehension I would contend it is better to start as early in the narrative as possible -- I.e., in 2:20.

My main question here though is: shouldn't this be rendered, as in chapter 1, "Then the Lord God moulded *a human* (or, the human) out of dust..." -- and so throughout the other instances of "ha-Adam?" In this chapter genders aren't distinguished till vs. 23. "Man" doesn't seem anymore accurate here than it is in 1:26-27.

(Vs. 8) "And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden..." A vav consecutive "and." Should be removed for better English style.

(Vs. 10) "..watered the garden; and..." Conjunction after a semicolon. Change to colon.

(Vs. 11) "... Pishon; which..." Not sure if this is UK usage. In US it's a comma before "which."

(Vs. 12) "... pure; and..." And" after a semicolon. Can be comma or deleted entirely.

(Vs. 13-14) "...the Gihon; which..." "...the Tigris; which..." Commas rather than semicolons -- in US, anyway.

"...heads toward the east of Asshur." -- FYI, NET, NRSV, NIV, CEB, HCSB, etc. translate this as Assyria.

(Vs. 19) "...what he would call them; and whatever he called..."  "And" after a semicolon. I'd recommend, "...what he would call them. Whatever he called..." 

(Vs. 20) "... and beasts; but for the man..." "But" after a semicolon. Make it a full stop and begin a new sentence with "But."

(Vs. 24) "... and the two become one." Nothing to translate "levasar." "One body" or the traditional "one flesh."

On Dec 26, 2012 7:22 PM, "russellallen [via Open English Bible]" <<a href="x-msg://89/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=42&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external">[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi guys,

I've uploaded a new Word version of Genesis to:

I've fixed up some spelling and punctuation typos, and included the changes discussed before that bottleofink raised (Thanks!)

As on the previous draft, I'm very interested in the low hanging fruit.  By that, I mean:

- spelling errors (the draft should be in standard US spelling)
- punctuation issues
- versification issues (it should correspond to NRSV versification. I will also prepare a version with JPS versification where it differs)

and, very importantly:

- language which is not in standard, grammatically correct English. Bonus points if it is a repeating pattern that can be fixed in multiple places!

I'm obviously also interested in translation issues, but don't want to get too bogged down in unresolvable questions. The translation should aim to correspond to the underlying text of the Westminster Leningrad Codex as found at http://www.tanach.us/Tanach.xml#Home unless otherwise noted. In practice, translation choices should be attested to in a mainstream English translation, such as the JPS 1985, NRSV, REB, TEV, CEV etc or in some mainstream scholarly context.   

Have fun!
Russell






If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email <a href="x-msg://89/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=42&amp;i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external">[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, <a href="x-msg://89/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" link="external">click here.
NAML



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p42.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
NAML

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

Pleonic
Perhaps we need a Wiki? Or one of the document collaboration tools in this Mashable article: http://mashable.com/2009/02/21/online-document-collaboration/

I don't know if anyone else is in my situation but most of what I've submitted so far was done on an Android Tablet while on the run. I'm able to edit and highlight Word docs, not interact with their version tracking though. Have Open Office on my laptop.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

Brian J. Henry
Yeah, I've heard good things about Google Docs' collaborative editing, though I've never used it myself.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

Pleonic
I've used Google Docs (actually Google Sites puts all the tools together for a project like ours) before. It's pretty good. For something as complex as juggling the entire OT and the contributions of who knows how many people, you may well need something like that.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

russellallen
Administrator
The difficulty with these sort of collaborative tools is that they are focused on multiple people building a single document, each working on a different bit, but this isn't really our workflow. Our workflow really is a conversation, with different versions floating around, many of which are trial suggestions or question raising.  On a wiki these conversations would look more like edit wars :) Email I think is better for sharing multiple options and choosing between them.

If we were making open source software, we would use their heavyweight tools (and we do use Git etc on the backend). But we need something much lighter and easier!

I can generate a plain text version easily, so it works without issues on all email clients. We could then pick a standard markup for suggested edits: say  [  ] for addition,  < > for deletion. So for example, a marked up Gen passage would look like:

[2:7] Then the Lord God moulded <man>[a person] out of dust taken from the ground and breathed into <his>[their] nostrils the breath of life, and <man>[the human, Adam,] became a living being. [2:8] And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, far in the East; and placed the <man>[person] he had formed there. [2:9] From the soil the Lord God made grow all kinds of trees that are pleasant to look at and good for food, with the tree of life also in the middle of the garden and the tree that gives the knowledge of good and evil.

People with colour email could add red and green if they want:

[2:7] Then the Lord God moulded <man>[a person] out of dust taken from the ground and breathed into <his>[their] nostrils the breath of life, and <man>[the human, Adam,] became a living being. [2:8] And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, far in the East; and placed the <man>[person] he had formed there. [2:9] From the soil the Lord God made grow all kinds of trees that are pleasant to look at and good for food, with the tree of life also in the middle of the garden and the tree that gives the knowledge of good and evil.

Thoughts?
Russell


On 04/01/2013, at 6:17 AM, Pleonic [via Open English Bible] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've used Google Docs (actually Google Sites puts all the tools together for a project like ours) before. It's pretty good. For something as complex as juggling the entire OT and the contributions of who knows how many people, you may well need something like that.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p46.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
NAML

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

Pleonic

OK, I'm working through chapter 3 now. I'll go back, paste in the the whole text, and see how marking it up goes.

On Jan 3, 2013 5:11 PM, "russellallen [via Open English Bible]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
The difficulty with these sort of collaborative tools is that they are focused on multiple people building a single document, each working on a different bit, but this isn't really our workflow. Our workflow really is a conversation, with different versions floating around, many of which are trial suggestions or question raising.  On a wiki these conversations would look more like edit wars :) Email I think is better for sharing multiple options and choosing between them.

If we were making open source software, we would use their heavyweight tools (and we do use Git etc on the backend). But we need something much lighter and easier!

I can generate a plain text version easily, so it works without issues on all email clients. We could then pick a standard markup for suggested edits: say  [  ] for addition,  < > for deletion. So for example, a marked up Gen passage would look like:

[2:7] Then the Lord God moulded <man>[a person] out of dust taken from the ground and breathed into <his>[their] nostrils the breath of life, and <man>[the human, Adam,] became a living being. [2:8] And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, far in the East; and placed the <man>[person] he had formed there. [2:9] From the soil the Lord God made grow all kinds of trees that are pleasant to look at and good for food, with the tree of life also in the middle of the garden and the tree that gives the knowledge of good and evil.

People with colour email could add red and green if they want:

[2:7] Then the Lord God moulded <man>[a person] out of dust taken from the ground and breathed into <his>[their] nostrils the breath of life, and <man>[the human, Adam,] became a living being. [2:8] And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, far in the East; and placed the <man>[person] he had formed there. [2:9] From the soil the Lord God made grow all kinds of trees that are pleasant to look at and good for food, with the tree of life also in the middle of the garden and the tree that gives the knowledge of good and evil.

Thoughts?
Russell


On 04/01/2013, at 6:17 AM, Pleonic [via Open English Bible] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've used Google Docs (actually Google Sites puts all the tools together for a project like ours) before. It's pretty good. For something as complex as juggling the entire OT and the contributions of who knows how many people, you may well need something like that.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p46.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
NAML




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p47.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
NAML
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

Pleonic
In reply to this post by russellallen

Some Thoughts on Genesis 3
(Using the new mark up)
========================

Note: When I felt an explanatory comment was needed I've used double braces {{ }}.

3

1 Now the <serpent>[snake] was craftier than any other wild beast that the Lord God had made<,>[.] <and it> [It] said to the woman, “Has God really <commanded>[said], {{Note: "command" is a different word in Heb.}} ‘You must not eat from any tree of the garden’?” 2 The woman answered, “We are allowed to eat the fruit of all the trees of the garden; 3 only regarding the fruit of the tree <which is> in the middle of the garden, <God has>[has God] said, ‘You must not eat from it, nor should you touch it, for if you do, you will die.’” 4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You [certainly] will not <surely> die<;>[!]  {{Note: Semicolon before coordinating conjunction. Also, sentence is much stronger in Heb. Altered in attempt to bring that out.}}   5 [The truth is] God knows that on the day you eat [some] of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like gods, knowing what is good and what is evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, <and> attractive to look at and desirable for acquiring wisdom, she took some of its fruit and ate. Then she gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they <knew> [realized] that they were naked<;>[,] so they sewed fig-leaves together to cover themselves. 8 But when they heard the sound of <the footsteps of >the Lord God<, as he was> walking in the garden [during] the cool [breeze]  {{Note: le ruach, "wind" in Heb. e.g., NET, HCSB, etc.}} of the day, the man and his wife hid from him among the [garden] trees. <of the garden>

9 When the Lord God called to the man <and said to him>, “Where are you?” 10 <H>he replied, “I heard the sound of your footsteps in the garden and I was afraid, because I was naked<;>[,] so I hid myself.” 11 The Lord God said, “Who told you that you were naked? Did you eat from the tree from which I <forbade> [ordered] you [not] to eat?” 12 The man answered, “The woman <who> you placed beside me, she gave me fruit from the tree and I ate.” 13 The Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman replied, “The <serpent> [snake] deceived me, and I ate.”

14 Then the Lord God said to the <serpent> [snake],

{{Note: Scansion added based on NRSV}}

“Because you have done this,
you will be more accursed than all cattle
and all the wild beasts.
You will crawl on your belly
and eat dust
all your life.
15 I will establish <enmity>[hostility] between you and the woman[,]
<and> between your <descendants>[offspring] and her[s], <descendants>
<They>who will <bruise>[wound] your head,
and you will wound <them on the>[their] heel.”

{{Note: Altered this way as an attempt to bring out the singular/collective ambiguity in the Heb. I.e., Pronouns are singular but "seed" is probably meant collectively. }}

16 To the woman he said,

“I will greatly increase your anguished [toil] <and pain during> <your>[in] pregnancy;
with pain will you bear children.
You will <desire> [yearn for] your husband,
but he will <rule over> [domineer] you.”

17 To <the man> [Adam] he said,

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
and <have> eaten <of>[from] the tree
<from which I forbade you to eat, >

{{Note: Truncated translation; longer in original & most renderings}}

[About which I ordered you:
"You must never eat from it"]
the ground will be cursed because of you;
as long as you live, you will earn a living only by <painful>[anguished] toil.

{{Note: To bring out parallel with woman's punishment in vs. 16, Heb.}}

18 The ground will always bring forth thorns and thistles,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat bread,
until you return to the ground,
for from it you were taken;
for dust you are,
and to dust you shall return!”

20 The <man, Adam,>[human] named his wife Eve; because she was the mother of all <living beings>[living people]<,>[.] 21 <and t> [T]he Lord God made <garments of skins>[tunics out of hides] for Adam and his wife to clothe them.

22 <But>[Then] the Lord God said: “The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not reach out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he had been taken. 24 He <drove out the man;>[expelled Adam] and <he placed>[stationed] at the east of the garden of Eden the <c>[C]herubim, and <the flaming>[a blazing] sword which turned every way, to bar the way to the tree of life.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

russellallen
Administrator
Hi,


I've adopted pretty much all of your changes. You might notice a couple of minor alterations in Gen 1. Let me know if you disagree.

I'm a bit conflicted over "but he will <rule over> [domineer] you." Gen 3:16  I agree domineer is probably the closest, but it is an unusual and little used word and 'rule over' is pretty similar.

Russell

On 05/01/2013, at 6:32 AM, Pleonic [via Open English Bible] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Some Thoughts on Genesis 3
(Using the new mark up)
========================

Note: When I felt an explanatory comment was needed I've used double braces {{ }}.

3

1 Now the <serpent>[snake] was craftier than any other wild beast that the Lord God had made<,>[.] <and it> [It] said to the woman, “Has God really <commanded>[said], {{Note: "command" is a different word in Heb.}} ‘You must not eat from any tree of the garden’?” 2 The woman answered, “We are allowed to eat the fruit of all the trees of the garden; 3 only regarding the fruit of the tree <which is> in the middle of the garden, <God has>[has God] said, ‘You must not eat from it, nor should you touch it, for if you do, you will die.’” 4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You [certainly] will not <surely> die<;>[!]  {{Note: Semicolon before coordinating conjunction. Also, sentence is much stronger in Heb. Altered in attempt to bring that out.}}   5 [The truth is] God knows that on the day you eat [some] of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like gods, knowing what is good and what is evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, <and> attractive to look at and desirable for acquiring wisdom, she took some of its fruit and ate. Then she gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they <knew> [realized] that they were naked<;>[,] so they sewed fig-leaves together to cover themselves. 8 But when they heard the sound of <the footsteps of >the Lord God<, as he was> walking in the garden [during] the cool [breeze]  {{Note: le ruach, "wind" in Heb. e.g., NET, HCSB, etc.}} of the day, the man and his wife hid from him among the [garden] trees. <of the garden>

9 When the Lord God called to the man <and said to him>, “Where are you?” 10 <H>he replied, “I heard the sound of your footsteps in the garden and I was afraid, because I was naked<;>[,] so I hid myself.” 11 The Lord God said, “Who told you that you were naked? Did you eat from the tree from which I <forbade> [ordered] you [not] to eat?” 12 The man answered, “The woman <who> you placed beside me, she gave me fruit from the tree and I ate.” 13 The Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman replied, “The <serpent> [snake] deceived me, and I ate.”

14 Then the Lord God said to the <serpent> [snake],

{{Note: Scansion added based on NRSV}}

“Because you have done this,
you will be more accursed than all cattle
and all the wild beasts.
You will crawl on your belly
and eat dust
all your life.
15 I will establish <enmity>[hostility] between you and the woman[,]
<and> between your <descendants>[offspring] and her[s], <descendants>
<They>who will <bruise>[wound] your head,
and you will wound <them on the>[their] heel.”

{{Note: Altered this way as an attempt to bring out the singular/collective ambiguity in the Heb. I.e., Pronouns are singular but "seed" is probably meant collectively. }}

16 To the woman he said,

“I will greatly increase your anguished [toil] <and pain during> <your>[in] pregnancy;
with pain will you bear children.
You will <desire> [yearn for] your husband,
but he will <rule over> [domineer] you.”

17 To <the man> [Adam] he said,

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
and <have> eaten <of>[from] the tree
<from which I forbade you to eat, >

{{Note: Truncated translation; longer in original & most renderings}}

[About which I ordered you:
"You must never eat from it"]
the ground will be cursed because of you;
as long as you live, you will earn a living only by <painful>[anguished] toil.

{{Note: To bring out parallel with woman's punishment in vs. 16, Heb.}}

18 The ground will always bring forth thorns and thistles,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat bread,
until you return to the ground,
for from it you were taken;
for dust you are,
and to dust you shall return!”

20 The <man, Adam,>[human] named his wife Eve; because she was the mother of all <living beings>[living people]<,>[.] 21 <and t> [T]he Lord God made <garments of skins>[tunics out of hides] for Adam and his wife to clothe them.

22 <But>[Then] the Lord God said: “The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not reach out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he had been taken. 24 He <drove out the man;>[expelled Adam] and <he placed>[stationed] at the east of the garden of Eden the <c>[C]herubim, and <the flaming>[a blazing] sword which turned every way, to bar the way to the tree of life.




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p49.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
NAML

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

Pleonic

Hmm... When I download from this link I'm getting the 27 December version showing no changes. Have tried it several times with the same result.

On Jan 12, 2013 11:17 PM, "russellallen [via Open English Bible]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,


I've adopted pretty much all of your changes. You might notice a couple of minor alterations in Gen 1. Let me know if you disagree.

I'm a bit conflicted over "but he will <rule over> [domineer] you." Gen 3:16  I agree domineer is probably the closest, but it is an unusual and little used word and 'rule over' is pretty similar.

Russell

On 05/01/2013, at 6:32 AM, Pleonic [via Open English Bible] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Some Thoughts on Genesis 3
(Using the new mark up)
========================

Note: When I felt an explanatory comment was needed I've used double braces {{ }}.

3

1 Now the <serpent>[snake] was craftier than any other wild beast that the Lord God had made<,>[.] <and it> [It] said to the woman, “Has God really <commanded>[said], {{Note: "command" is a different word in Heb.}} ‘You must not eat from any tree of the garden’?” 2 The woman answered, “We are allowed to eat the fruit of all the trees of the garden; 3 only regarding the fruit of the tree <which is> in the middle of the garden, <God has>[has God] said, ‘You must not eat from it, nor should you touch it, for if you do, you will die.’” 4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You [certainly] will not <surely> die<;>[!]  {{Note: Semicolon before coordinating conjunction. Also, sentence is much stronger in Heb. Altered in attempt to bring that out.}}   5 [The truth is] God knows that on the day you eat [some] of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like gods, knowing what is good and what is evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, <and> attractive to look at and desirable for acquiring wisdom, she took some of its fruit and ate. Then she gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they <knew> [realized] that they were naked<;>[,] so they sewed fig-leaves together to cover themselves. 8 But when they heard the sound of <the footsteps of >the Lord God<, as he was> walking in the garden [during] the cool [breeze]  {{Note: le ruach, "wind" in Heb. e.g., NET, HCSB, etc.}} of the day, the man and his wife hid from him among the [garden] trees. <of the garden>

9 When the Lord God called to the man <and said to him>, “Where are you?” 10 <H>he replied, “I heard the sound of your footsteps in the garden and I was afraid, because I was naked<;>[,] so I hid myself.” 11 The Lord God said, “Who told you that you were naked? Did you eat from the tree from which I <forbade> [ordered] you [not] to eat?” 12 The man answered, “The woman <who> you placed beside me, she gave me fruit from the tree and I ate.” 13 The Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman replied, “The <serpent> [snake] deceived me, and I ate.”

14 Then the Lord God said to the <serpent> [snake],

{{Note: Scansion added based on NRSV}}

“Because you have done this,
you will be more accursed than all cattle
and all the wild beasts.
You will crawl on your belly
and eat dust
all your life.
15 I will establish <enmity>[hostility] between you and the woman[,]
<and> between your <descendants>[offspring] and her[s], <descendants>
<They>who will <bruise>[wound] your head,
and you will wound <them on the>[their] heel.”

{{Note: Altered this way as an attempt to bring out the singular/collective ambiguity in the Heb. I.e., Pronouns are singular but "seed" is probably meant collectively. }}

16 To the woman he said,

“I will greatly increase your anguished [toil] <and pain during> <your>[in] pregnancy;
with pain will you bear children.
You will <desire> [yearn for] your husband,
but he will <rule over> [domineer] you.”

17 To <the man> [Adam] he said,

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
and <have> eaten <of>[from] the tree
<from which I forbade you to eat, >

{{Note: Truncated translation; longer in original & most renderings}}

[About which I ordered you:
"You must never eat from it"]
the ground will be cursed because of you;
as long as you live, you will earn a living only by <painful>[anguished] toil.

{{Note: To bring out parallel with woman's punishment in vs. 16, Heb.}}

18 The ground will always bring forth thorns and thistles,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat bread,
until you return to the ground,
for from it you were taken;
for dust you are,
and to dust you shall return!”

20 The <man, Adam,>[human] named his wife Eve; because she was the mother of all <living beings>[living people]<,>[.] 21 <and t> [T]he Lord God made <garments of skins>[tunics out of hides] for Adam and his wife to clothe them.

22 <But>[Then] the Lord God said: “The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not reach out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he had been taken. 24 He <drove out the man;>[expelled Adam] and <he placed>[stationed] at the east of the garden of Eden the <c>[C]herubim, and <the flaming>[a blazing] sword which turned every way, to bar the way to the tree of life.




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p49.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
NAML




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p50.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
NAML
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

russellallen
Administrator
Dunno what happened but I've reuploaded. Try again and see if it is fixed. 

On 14/01/2013, at 3:10 AM, "Pleonic [via Open English Bible]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hmm... When I download from this link I'm getting the 27 December version showing no changes. Have tried it several times with the same result.

On Jan 12, 2013 11:17 PM, "russellallen [via Open English Bible]" <<a href="x-msg://5/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=51&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external">[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,


I've adopted pretty much all of your changes. You might notice a couple of minor alterations in Gen 1. Let me know if you disagree.

I'm a bit conflicted over "but he will <rule over> [domineer] you." Gen 3:16  I agree domineer is probably the closest, but it is an unusual and little used word and 'rule over' is pretty similar.

Russell

On 05/01/2013, at 6:32 AM, Pleonic [via Open English Bible] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Some Thoughts on Genesis 3
(Using the new mark up)
========================

Note: When I felt an explanatory comment was needed I've used double braces {{ }}.

3

1 Now the <serpent>[snake] was craftier than any other wild beast that the Lord God had made<,>[.] <and it> [It] said to the woman, “Has God really <commanded>[said], {{Note: "command" is a different word in Heb.}} ‘You must not eat from any tree of the garden’?” 2 The woman answered, “We are allowed to eat the fruit of all the trees of the garden; 3 only regarding the fruit of the tree <which is> in the middle of the garden, <God has>[has God] said, ‘You must not eat from it, nor should you touch it, for if you do, you will die.’” 4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You [certainly] will not <surely> die<;>[!]  {{Note: Semicolon before coordinating conjunction. Also, sentence is much stronger in Heb. Altered in attempt to bring that out.}}   5 [The truth is] God knows that on the day you eat [some] of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like gods, knowing what is good and what is evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, <and> attractive to look at and desirable for acquiring wisdom, she took some of its fruit and ate. Then she gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they <knew> [realized] that they were naked<;>[,] so they sewed fig-leaves together to cover themselves. 8 But when they heard the sound of <the footsteps of >the Lord God<, as he was> walking in the garden [during] the cool [breeze]  {{Note: le ruach, "wind" in Heb. e.g., NET, HCSB, etc.}} of the day, the man and his wife hid from him among the [garden] trees. <of the garden>

9 When the Lord God called to the man <and said to him>, “Where are you?” 10 <H>he replied, “I heard the sound of your footsteps in the garden and I was afraid, because I was naked<;>[,] so I hid myself.” 11 The Lord God said, “Who told you that you were naked? Did you eat from the tree from which I <forbade> [ordered] you [not] to eat?” 12 The man answered, “The woman <who> you placed beside me, she gave me fruit from the tree and I ate.” 13 The Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman replied, “The <serpent> [snake] deceived me, and I ate.”

14 Then the Lord God said to the <serpent> [snake],

{{Note: Scansion added based on NRSV}}

“Because you have done this,
you will be more accursed than all cattle
and all the wild beasts.
You will crawl on your belly
and eat dust
all your life.
15 I will establish <enmity>[hostility] between you and the woman[,]
<and> between your <descendants>[offspring] and her[s], <descendants>
<They>who will <bruise>[wound] your head,
and you will wound <them on the>[their] heel.”

{{Note: Altered this way as an attempt to bring out the singular/collective ambiguity in the Heb. I.e., Pronouns are singular but "seed" is probably meant collectively. }}

16 To the woman he said,

“I will greatly increase your anguished [toil] <and pain during> <your>[in] pregnancy;
with pain will you bear children.
You will <desire> [yearn for] your husband,
but he will <rule over> [domineer] you.”

17 To <the man> [Adam] he said,

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
and <have> eaten <of>[from] the tree
<from which I forbade you to eat, >

{{Note: Truncated translation; longer in original & most renderings}}

[About which I ordered you:
"You must never eat from it"]
the ground will be cursed because of you;
as long as you live, you will earn a living only by <painful>[anguished] toil.

{{Note: To bring out parallel with woman's punishment in vs. 16, Heb.}}

18 The ground will always bring forth thorns and thistles,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat bread,
until you return to the ground,
for from it you were taken;
for dust you are,
and to dust you shall return!”

20 The <man, Adam,>[human] named his wife Eve; because she was the mother of all <living beings>[living people]<,>[.] 21 <and t> [T]he Lord God made <garments of skins>[tunics out of hides] for Adam and his wife to clothe them.

22 <But>[Then] the Lord God said: “The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not reach out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he had been taken. 24 He <drove out the man;>[expelled Adam] and <he placed>[stationed] at the east of the garden of Eden the <c>[C]herubim, and <the flaming>[a blazing] sword which turned every way, to bar the way to the tree of life.




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p49.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
NAML




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p50.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email <a href="x-msg://5/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=51&amp;i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external">[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, <a href="x-msg://5/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" link="external">click here.
NAML



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p51.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
NAML

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

Pleonic

Success!

On Jan 13, 2013 7:25 PM, "russellallen [via Open English Bible]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dunno what happened but I've reuploaded. Try again and see if it is fixed. 

On 14/01/2013, at 3:10 AM, "Pleonic [via Open English Bible]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hmm... When I download from this link I'm getting the 27 December version showing no changes. Have tried it several times with the same result.

On Jan 12, 2013 11:17 PM, "russellallen [via Open English Bible]" <<a href="x-msg://5/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=51&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external">[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,


I've adopted pretty much all of your changes. You might notice a couple of minor alterations in Gen 1. Let me know if you disagree.

I'm a bit conflicted over "but he will <rule over> [domineer] you." Gen 3:16  I agree domineer is probably the closest, but it is an unusual and little used word and 'rule over' is pretty similar.

Russell

On 05/01/2013, at 6:32 AM, Pleonic [via Open English Bible] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Some Thoughts on Genesis 3
(Using the new mark up)
========================

Note: When I felt an explanatory comment was needed I've used double braces {{ }}.

3

1 Now the <serpent>[snake] was craftier than any other wild beast that the Lord God had made<,>[.] <and it> [It] said to the woman, “Has God really <commanded>[said], {{Note: "command" is a different word in Heb.}} ‘You must not eat from any tree of the garden’?” 2 The woman answered, “We are allowed to eat the fruit of all the trees of the garden; 3 only regarding the fruit of the tree <which is> in the middle of the garden, <God has>[has God] said, ‘You must not eat from it, nor should you touch it, for if you do, you will die.’” 4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You [certainly] will not <surely> die<;>[!]  {{Note: Semicolon before coordinating conjunction. Also, sentence is much stronger in Heb. Altered in attempt to bring that out.}}   5 [The truth is] God knows that on the day you eat [some] of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like gods, knowing what is good and what is evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, <and> attractive to look at and desirable for acquiring wisdom, she took some of its fruit and ate. Then she gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they <knew> [realized] that they were naked<;>[,] so they sewed fig-leaves together to cover themselves. 8 But when they heard the sound of <the footsteps of >the Lord God<, as he was> walking in the garden [during] the cool [breeze]  {{Note: le ruach, "wind" in Heb. e.g., NET, HCSB, etc.}} of the day, the man and his wife hid from him among the [garden] trees. <of the garden>

9 When the Lord God called to the man <and said to him>, “Where are you?” 10 <H>he replied, “I heard the sound of your footsteps in the garden and I was afraid, because I was naked<;>[,] so I hid myself.” 11 The Lord God said, “Who told you that you were naked? Did you eat from the tree from which I <forbade> [ordered] you [not] to eat?” 12 The man answered, “The woman <who> you placed beside me, she gave me fruit from the tree and I ate.” 13 The Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman replied, “The <serpent> [snake] deceived me, and I ate.”

14 Then the Lord God said to the <serpent> [snake],

{{Note: Scansion added based on NRSV}}

“Because you have done this,
you will be more accursed than all cattle
and all the wild beasts.
You will crawl on your belly
and eat dust
all your life.
15 I will establish <enmity>[hostility] between you and the woman[,]
<and> between your <descendants>[offspring] and her[s], <descendants>
<They>who will <bruise>[wound] your head,
and you will wound <them on the>[their] heel.”

{{Note: Altered this way as an attempt to bring out the singular/collective ambiguity in the Heb. I.e., Pronouns are singular but "seed" is probably meant collectively. }}

16 To the woman he said,

“I will greatly increase your anguished [toil] <and pain during> <your>[in] pregnancy;
with pain will you bear children.
You will <desire> [yearn for] your husband,
but he will <rule over> [domineer] you.”

17 To <the man> [Adam] he said,

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
and <have> eaten <of>[from] the tree
<from which I forbade you to eat, >

{{Note: Truncated translation; longer in original & most renderings}}

[About which I ordered you:
"You must never eat from it"]
the ground will be cursed because of you;
as long as you live, you will earn a living only by <painful>[anguished] toil.

{{Note: To bring out parallel with woman's punishment in vs. 16, Heb.}}

18 The ground will always bring forth thorns and thistles,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat bread,
until you return to the ground,
for from it you were taken;
for dust you are,
and to dust you shall return!”

20 The <man, Adam,>[human] named his wife Eve; because she was the mother of all <living beings>[living people]<,>[.] 21 <and t> [T]he Lord God made <garments of skins>[tunics out of hides] for Adam and his wife to clothe them.

22 <But>[Then] the Lord God said: “The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not reach out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he had been taken. 24 He <drove out the man;>[expelled Adam] and <he placed>[stationed] at the east of the garden of Eden the <c>[C]herubim, and <the flaming>[a blazing] sword which turned every way, to bar the way to the tree of life.




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p49.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
NAML




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p50.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email <a href="x-msg://5/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=51&amp;i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external">[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, <a href="x-msg://5/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" link="external">click here.
NAML



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p51.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
NAML




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p53.html
To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
NAML
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: New version of Genesis

Pleonic
In reply to this post by russellallen


"Rule over" is good, but everybody uses it so I was trying for something different. Not the best reason for a rendering, I admit. "Domineer" is a bit unusual though. Perhaps the NET's "dominate," the REB's "master," or "lord it over you" (Message)?

>
> On Jan 12, 2013 11:17 PM, "russellallen [via Open English Bible]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> New version at normal place ( http://openenglishbible.org/oeb/current/OEB-Genesis-Current-US.doc )
>>
>> I've adopted pretty much all of your changes. You might notice a couple of minor alterations in Gen 1. Let me know if you disagree.
>>
>> I'm a bit conflicted over "but he will <rule over> [domineer] you." Gen 3:16  I agree domineer is probably the closest, but it is an unusual and little used word and 'rule over' is pretty similar.
>>
>> Russell
>>
>> On 05/01/2013, at 6:32 AM, Pleonic [via Open English Bible] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Some Thoughts on Genesis 3
>>> (Using the new mark up)
>>> ========================
>>>
>>> Note: When I felt an explanatory comment was needed I've used double braces {{ }}.
>>>
>>> 3
>>>
>>> 1 Now the <serpent>[snake] was craftier than any other wild beast that the Lord God had made<,>[.] <and it> [It] said to the woman, “Has God really <commanded>[said], {{Note: "command" is a different word in Heb.}} ‘You must not eat from any tree of the garden’?” 2 The woman answered, “We are allowed to eat the fruit of all the trees of the garden; 3 only regarding the fruit of the tree <which is> in the middle of the garden, <God has>[has God] said, ‘You must not eat from it, nor should you touch it, for if you do, you will die.’” 4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You [certainly] will not <surely> die<;>[!]  {{Note: Semicolon before coordinating conjunction. Also, sentence is much stronger in Heb. Altered in attempt to bring that out.}}   5 [The truth is] God knows that on the day you eat [some] of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like gods, knowing what is good and what is evil.”
>>>
>>> 6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, <and> attractive to look at and desirable for acquiring wisdom, she took some of its fruit and ate. Then she gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.
>>>
>>> 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they <knew> [realized] that they were naked<;>[,] so they sewed fig-leaves together to cover themselves. 8 But when they heard the sound of <the footsteps of >the Lord God<, as he was> walking in the garden [during] the cool [breeze]  {{Note: le ruach, "wind" in Heb. e.g., NET, HCSB, etc.}} of the day, the man and his wife hid from him among the [garden] trees. <of the garden>
>>>
>>> 9 When the Lord God called to the man <and said to him>, “Where are you?” 10 <H>he replied, “I heard the sound of your footsteps in the garden and I was afraid, because I was naked<;>[,] so I hid myself.” 11 The Lord God said, “Who told you that you were naked? Did you eat from the tree from which I <forbade> [ordered] you [not] to eat?” 12 The man answered, “The woman <who> you placed beside me, she gave me fruit from the tree and I ate.” 13 The Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman replied, “The <serpent> [snake] deceived me, and I ate.”
>>>
>>> 14 Then the Lord God said to the <serpent> [snake],
>>>
>>> {{Note: Scansion added based on NRSV}}
>>>
>>> “Because you have done this,
>>> you will be more accursed than all cattle
>>> and all the wild beasts.
>>> You will crawl on your belly
>>> and eat dust
>>> all your life.
>>> 15 I will establish <enmity>[hostility] between you and the woman[,]
>>> <and> between your <descendants>[offspring] and her[s], <descendants>
>>> <They>who will <bruise>[wound] your head,
>>> and you will wound <them on the>[their] heel.”
>>>
>>> {{Note: Altered this way as an attempt to bring out the singular/collective ambiguity in the Heb. I.e., Pronouns are singular but "seed" is probably meant collectively. }}
>>>
>>> 16 To the woman he said,
>>>
>>> “I will greatly increase your anguished [toil] <and pain during> <your>[in] pregnancy;
>>> with pain will you bear children.
>>> You will <desire> [yearn for] your husband,
>>> but he will <rule over> [domineer] you.”
>>>
>>> 17 To <the man> [Adam] he said,
>>>
>>> “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
>>> and <have> eaten <of>[from] the tree
>>> <from which I forbade you to eat, >
>>>
>>> {{Note: Truncated translation; longer in original & most renderings}}
>>>
>>> [About which I ordered you:
>>> "You must never eat from it"]
>>> the ground will be cursed because of you;
>>> as long as you live, you will earn a living only by <painful>[anguished] toil.
>>>
>>> {{Note: To bring out parallel with woman's punishment in vs. 16, Heb.}}
>>>
>>> 18 The ground will always bring forth thorns and thistles,
>>> and you will eat the plants of the field.
>>> 19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat bread,
>>> until you return to the ground,
>>> for from it you were taken;
>>> for dust you are,
>>> and to dust you shall return!”
>>>
>>> 20 The <man, Adam,>[human] named his wife Eve; because she was the mother of all <living beings>[living people]<,>[.] 21 <and t> [T]he Lord God made <garments of skins>[tunics out of hides] for Adam and his wife to clothe them.
>>>
>>> 22 <But>[Then] the Lord God said: “The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not reach out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he had been taken. 24 He <drove out the man;>[expelled Adam] and <he placed>[stationed] at the east of the garden of Eden the <c>[C]herubim, and <the flaming>[a blazing] sword which turned every way, to bar the way to the tree of life.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
>>> http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p49.html
>>> To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
>>> To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
>>> NAML
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
>> http://forum.openenglishbible.org/New-version-of-Genesis-tp35p50.html
>> To start a new topic under Open English Bible, email [hidden email]
>> To unsubscribe from Open English Bible, click here.
>> NAML

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Genesis 4

Pleonic
Hi, sorry I haven't been around for awhile. When last I was here I was working on Genesis but it looks as tho the most helpful thing now is combing thru the OEB NT. So here is Genesis 4 marked up with some suggested alterations. Now to find a nice epistle to look thru.

GENESIS 4

4
Cain and Abel
1[So,] {{Note: Disjunctive clause, new part of story begins}} Adam <lay with his>[made love to his] wife Eve <and she> [who became pregnant.]  She gave birth to Cain, and <she said>[declared], “I have created a man with the help of the LORD !” 2 She also gave birth to his brother Abel. Abel was a shepherd <, but>[while] Cain was a farmer.
3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the <produce of the ground>[ground’s produce] as an offering to the LORD . 4 Abel too brought some of the choicest animals of his flock and sacrificed their fat pieces. The LORD looked with approval on Abel and his offering 5 but he could not receive Cain and his offering with approval.

Therefore Cain <was very angry>[burned with anger] {{Note: Literal meaning is more vivid }} and his face fell. 6 So the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry and why do you scowl? 7 If you do what is <right and good>[pleasing to me] <will not your offering be accepted?>[can you not hold your head up high?] {{Note: Following NJB, REB, and similar NET, GNT}}  But if you do <wrong>[not], sin crouches at the door and <the inclination to sin will overcome you>[ longs to have you], but you <should>[must] master it.” {{Note: Overall in vs. 7 followed what seems to be most widely accepted interp., e.g. NIV, NRSV, LEB, NET, NLT.}}

8 Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let us go into the field.” While they were <in the field> there, Cain attacked his brother and killed him.
9 Then the LORD <said to> [asked] Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?” He answered, “I do not know<;>[!] [A]m I my brother's keeper?” 10 <>“What have you done?” [the LORD <said,>[replied.]  “Listen! Your brother's blood is crying [out] to me from the ground. 11 Even now you are cursed by the very ground that has opened to receive your brother's blood <from>[shed by] your hand. 12 <Whenever>[From now on when] you till the ground, it will no longer yield [its best] to you <its strength;> You will be a <vagabond and a wanderer>[a wandering refugee up]on the earth.”

13 Then Cain said to the LORD , “My punishment is <more than I can>[too much for me to] bear. 14 <See, you have driven me out today from this land, and I will no longer be able to worship you;>[Look! Today you banish me from the ground. I must hide from your presence.] {{Note: NRSV, LEB, NET, etc }}  I shall <become a vagabond and a wanderer> [be a wandering refugee up]on the earth and whoever finds me will kill me!"

15 But the LORD said to him, “If anyone kills you, the crime shall be avenged sevenfold.” So the LORD placed a <tribal> [distinctive] {{Note: Similar to NET's "special." "Tribal" seems too interpretive.}} mark on Cain, to keep any one who found him from killing him. 16 Cain departed from the LORD 's presence and lived east of Eden in the land of Wandering.

Genealogy
17 Cain <lay with> [made love to] his wife<;> and she <conceived>[became pregnant], <and bore> [giving birth to] Enoch. Cain built a city, and named <the city> [it] after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad<;>[,] and Irad fathered Mehujael<; and>[,] Mehujael fathered Methushael<;> and Methushael fathered Lamech.

Lamech's vengence
19 Lamech took two wives; the name of one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20 Adah <fathered> [gave birth to] Jabal<; he was the father> [who became the ancestor] of the people who live in tents and have cattle. 21 His brother's name was Jubal; he was the <father>[ancestor] of the people who play the harp and <pipe>[flute] {{Note: GNT, NET}} . 22[As for] {{Note: NJPS}} Zillah, <also bore> [she gave birth to] Tubal-cain, <who was the father of all those who forge> [who forged all sorts of tools from] {{Words added, others left out or mistranslated. NRSV, NJPS, NET, NIV, etc.}} copper and iron. The sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

[New paragraph]

23 Lamech said to his wives:
["]Adah and Zillah, hear my voice;
wives of Lamech, listen to my speech;
because I have slain a man for wounding me,
and a young man for bruising me.
24 If Cain is to be avenged sevenfold,
[then] Lamech will be seventy and sevenfold.["]

Genealogy
25 Adam <lay with>[made love to] his wife again<;> and she bore a son, <and named him> [whom she named] Seth: “because God gave me another son for Abel, who was killed by Cain.” 26 Seth too had a son; he named him Enosh. That was when people began <using the name of [the] LORD in worship>[worshipping in the name of the LORD]. {{Borrowed from CEB}}