The spirit pleads ... to Who?

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
1 message Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

The spirit pleads ... to Who?

robin
(Robin)
Here's some interesting  observations ... and resulting adjustments from how the CLNT reads things ...

8:26* Yet as-same, also, the spirit together-instead-obtains unto the weaknesses of us,
 for to the what [matter] we will pray; according-to-which it binds we have had perceived not,
but the same spirit over-pleads of us unto unspoken groanings.
 8:27* Yet the [One] to the hearts searching,
He has had perceived what [be] the disposition of the spirit,
that according-to God it pleads over [the] sanctified [ones]."  (~Robin)

... some of the differences are dependent upon the source text used, I'm of the mind that the Byzantine
should be preferred over the alexandrian source texts; hence, the difference in the plural "weaknesses,"
and the addition (or deletion in the case of the CLNT) of "OVER US us groaning" ... And also, there's
the more important (I think) difference in the parsing of the verb; that is "we WILL pray," instead of the CLNT
reading of "we SHOULD pray" ...

Also, not that it's a source text difference, but rather just a sloppy reading by the CLNT ... that is, where
they read this as, "the spirit also is aiding our infirmity" ...
I read this as, "also, the spirit together-instead-obtains unto the weaknesses of us" ...
That is, the verb is not just the simple "aiding" ... which if this were, in fact, that particular verb (#4815; "together-obtaining"),
is actually a more complex Greek word combination "sunantilambanetai" (#4878; "it together-INSTEAD-obtains") ...

This particular verb is only used twice in the NT, the other verse being Luke 10:40, which the CLNT also misreads as just
"aiding," when in fact, Martha is complainint to the Lord, and asking that He ...instead ... have Mary help her, rathar than listen.
Look closely at that verse in Luke, and you will clearly see why the more complex verb reading is the more accurate ... in both verses.

And, there's a question concerning verse 27 ... currently I'm going with the CLNT reading of
..."according-to God it pleads over [the] sanctified [ones]...
however, we know from Romans 8:34 that is our Lord Who pleads over us to God, soooooo ....we just might want to take a second,
closer look at this Romans 8:27 verse to confirm just Who or what is doing this pleading over us to God?  I think a good case could be
made to read this as "HE pleads" instead of "it pleads" ... even though this third person verb doesn't give us any gender. That is, look
at it within the context: this verse starts out with the masculine, "the [ONE] to the hearts searching" ... that is, here, it's not the neuter
spirit doing this particular searching, but some ONE, some masculine ONE searching, and it's also this same masculine ONE WHO
"has had received what [be] the disposition of the spirit" ...

That is, first we have the spirit "together-instead-obtaining unto ou weaknesses" for the purposes of more accurately noting what we
really should be praying for, instead of what we might inadvertently be praying for ... Then, of course, it's this same spirit that does,
indeed, "over-pleads of us, as regarding our unspoken groanings" ... however, please note, it does not say that this particular pleading
is addressed to God!  And with this noted, the following verse takes up the progression; that is it's the masculine ONE, Who then perceives
what be the disposition of the spirit (God's spirit, that He has placed in our hearts), and it could well be ... most logically be ... this masculine ONE,
Who then does the subsequentle pleading over us to God the Father ....

Check it out ... it's a logical argument, especially in light of the FACT, that the following verse 8:34 informs us that
it's Christ, Himself, Who does the actual pleading for us to God; that is, Christ hears or perceives the spirit, and He is the ONE,
Who passes this on to the Father.

***
 
8:26* Ὡσαύτως δὲ καὶ τὸ πνεῦμα συναντιλαμβάνεται ταῖς ἀσθενείαις ἡμῶν· τὸ γὰρ τί προσευξόμεθα καθὸ δεῖ, οὐκ οἴδαμεν, ἀλλʼ αὐτὸ τὸ πνεῦμα ὑπερεντυγχάνει ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν στεναγμοῖς ἀλαλήτοις·
 
hOsautOs de kai to pneuma sunantilambanetai tais astheneiais hEmOn to gar ti proseuxometha katho dei
ouk oidamen all auto to pneuma huperentugchanei huper hEmOn stenagmois alalEtois
 
Yet as-same, also, the spirit together-instead-obtains unto the weaknesses of us, for to the what [matter] we will pray; according-to-which it binds we have had perceived not, but the same spirit over-pleads of us unto unspoken groanings.
 
as-same {5615 ADV} yet {1161 CONJ} also {2532 CONJ} the [thing] {3588 T-NSN} a spirit {4151 N-NSN} it  together-instead-obtains {4878 V-PNI-3S} unto the [ones] {3588 T-DPF} unto weaknesses {0769 N-DPF} of us {1473 P-1GP} to the [thing] {3588 T-ASN} for {1063 CONJ} to what? a [thing] {5101 I-ASN} we will pray {4336 V-FDI-1P} according-to-which {2526 ADV} it binds {1163 V-PAI-3S} not {3756 PRT-N} we have had perceived {3609a V-RAI-1P} but {0235 CONJ} a same [thing] {0846 P-NSN} the [thing] {3588 T-NSN} a spirit {4151 N-NSN} it over-pleads {5241 V-PAI-3S} over {5228 PREP} of us {1473 P-1GP} unto groanings {4726 N-DPM} unto unspoken [ones] {0215 A-DPM}
 
 
8:27* ὁ δὲ ἐρευνῶν τὰς καρδίας οἶδεν τί τὸ φρόνημα τοῦ πνεύματος, ὅτι κατὰ θεὸν ἐντυγχάνει ὑπὲρ ἁγίων.
 
ho de ereunOn tas kardias oiden ti to phronEma tou pneumatos hoti kata theon entugchanei huper hagiOn
 
Yet the [One] to the hearts searching, He has had perceived what [be] the disposition of the spirit, that according-to God it pleads over [the] sanctified [ones].
 
the [One] {3588 T-NSM} yet {1161 CONJ} searching {2037a V-PAP-NSM} to the [ones] {3588 T-APF} to hearts {2588 N-APF} He has had perceived {3609a V-RAI-3S} what? a [thing] {5101 I-NSN} the [thing] {3588 T-NSN} a disposition {5427 N-NSN} of the [thing] {3588 T-GSN} of a spirit {4151 N-GSN} that {3754 CONJ} according-to {2596 PREP} to God {2316 N-ASM} it pleads {1793 V-PAI-3S} over {5228 PREP} of sanctified [ones] {0040 A-GPM}
 
Loading...