Working Through the Book of Matthew

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Re: Working Through the Book of Matthew

Brian J. Henry
Timchambers wrote
I'd suggest removing the overuse of semicolons and cleaning up the sentence structure a bit.
Proposed new translation. I've also tried to find some more commonly used English words in several places:

"Pray then, in this way:

    ‘Our Father in Heaven, may your name be honored as Holy,
    May your kingdom come, your will be done on this earth, as it is in heaven.
    Give us today the bread that we will need for the day,
    and forgive us our wrongs, as we have forgiven those who have wronged us.
    Take us not into temptation, but liberate us from evil.’

One question: I saw that the word translated "temptation" could also be translated "trail" - I wonder if "dark testing" might be a better translation than "temptation." Any thoughts?
A. Nyland says the following about some of the words:
wrongs, wronged us: the same words used in Deut. 15:2 for the cancellation of debts and lending. The word hamartia (sin) does not occur here.
temptation: periasmos, ordeal. The cognate verb, peirazo, means to put through an ordeal, to be harassed, not to be tempted.
I think your "testing" would be closer, or the NRSV's "trial."

Also "Give us today...We need for the day." sounds redundant.

Perhaps:
    ‘Our Father in Heaven, may your name be honored as holy,
    May your kingdom come, your will be done, on this earth as it is in heaven.
    Give us today the bread we will need,
    and forgive us our debts, as we have forgiven our debtors.
    Bring us not to times of trial, but liberate us from evil.’
sidenote: I know there's a debate as to whether it's "evil" or "the evil one" but I don't know enough greek to really comment. :p NRSV, NET, The Source NT, and others go with the evil one, though. Could possibly go with "Evil"?

NET says:
"The term πονηροῦ (ponhrou) may be understood as specific and personified, referring to the devil, or possibly as a general reference to evil. It is most likely personified since it is articular (τοῦ πονηροῦ, tou ponhrou). Cf. also “the evildoer” in 5:39, which is the same construction."
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Re: Working Through the Book of Matthew

Timchambers
These suggestions work for me....
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Re: Working Through the Book of Matthew

Timchambers
In reply to this post by Timchambers
Matt 6:16 currently reads:

"And, when you fast, do not put on gloomy looks, as hypocrites do who disfigure their faces so that they may be seen by people to be fasting. That, I tell you, is their reward!"

Consider using the phrase at the end using the same wording I suggested in the earlier verses:

"And, when you fast, do not put on gloomy looks, as hypocrites do who disfigure their faces so that they may be seen by people to be fasting. I tell you: that is all the reward they will ever get!"
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Re: Working Through the Book of Matthew

Timchambers
In reply to this post by Timchambers
Matt 6:34 reads--  "Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring its own anxieties. Every day has trouble enough of its own."

Consider this reword:

 "Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Every day has trouble enough of its own."
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Re: Working Through the Book of Matthew

Timchambers
In reply to this post by Timchambers
Am skipping ahead of myself a bit but just read this:
http://goddidntsaythat.com/2012/01/18/how-to-love-the-lord-your-god-part-3-heart-and-soul/

The OEB translates Matt 22:37 now as:
His answer was: “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’

That argues that Matt 22:37 would be best translated:

His answer was: “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your mind and body."
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Re: Working Through the Book of Matthew

Brian J. Henry
Timchambers wrote
The OEB translates Matt 22:37 now as:
His answer was: “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’

That argues that Matt 22:37 would be best translated:

His answer was: “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your mind and body."
This is one of those traditional verses that everyone knows, I think we should be careful to not change it too much unless needed. I think the meaning is pretty clear: love God with everything you've got.

Translating 'kardia' as 'mind' instead of 'heart' isn't without precedence, but psuche as 'body' seems weird, considering it's contrasted with 'soma' (body) a few times.
Do not fear those who kill the body (soma) but cannot kill the soul (psuchen); rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
But alas, I am only a beginner in Greek, perhaps I'm mistaken.

Also, neither him nor you mentioned how to translate dianoia. Very few translations alternatively go for 'understanding,' but
“‘You must love the Lord your God with all your mind and body and understanding."
sounds awkward and redundant to me.

I can only find three translations that deviate in this verse:
Young's Literal, and the Source NT: Heart, Soul, Understanding
Lattimore: Heart, Spirit, Mind

Also, this is a triple tradition passage, so any changes should be mirrored in Mark 12:30 and Luke 10:27, too.

Personally, I'm happy with it as is though.
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