"Soul" and "Psyche" in the OEB

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Re: "Soul" and "Psyche" in the OEB

Timchambers
The OEB renders Rev 18:13 as:

nor their cinnamon, or spice, or incense, or perfumes, or frankincense, or wine, or oil, or fine flour, or wheat, or cattle, or sheep; nor their horses, or chariots, or slaves; nor the bodies and souls of people.

All modern translations use the words "human lives" or "human beings" for "pscyhe" here rather than "soul." So should we. Consider the following recommendation:

nor their cinnamon, or spice, or incense, or perfumes, or frankincense, or wine, or oil, or fine flour, or wheat, or cattle, or sheep; nor their horses, or chariots, or slaves bodies - that is, human lives.


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Re: "Soul" and "Psyche" in the OEB

Timchambers
In reply to this post by Timchambers
In the OEB, Rev 18:14 reads:

The fruit that your soul craved is no longer within your reach, and all dainties and luxuries are lost to you, never to be found again.’

Most modern translations render "psyche" as "you" as should we. I also tweaked the rest of the sentence to more closely match the greek. Consider:

The fruit that you craved is has left you. All luxuries and splendor are lost to you, never to be found again.’

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Re: "Soul" and "Psyche" in the OEB

Timchambers
In reply to this post by Timchambers
In the OEB Rev 20:4 reads:

Then I saw thrones, and to those who took their seats on them authority was given to act as judges. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony to Jesus and because of the message of God, for they had refused to worship the Beast or its image, and had not received the brand on their foreheads and on their hands. They were restored to life, and they reigned with the Christ for a thousand years.

Most translations render "psyche" as "souls" but not all:

The HCSB reads:
Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge. I also saw the people who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of God’s word, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and who had not accepted the mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with the Messiah for 1,000 years.

Consider going with the same direction as the HCSB, along with a few tweaks to better match the greek:

Then I saw thrones, and to those who took their seats on them authority was given to act as judges. And I saw the people who had been beheaded because of the testimony to Jesus and because of the message of God, for they had refused to worship the Beast or its image, and had not received the mark on their foreheads and on their hands. They came to life, and they reigned with the Christ for a thousand years.
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Re: "Soul" and "Psyche" in the OEB

Timchambers
In reply to this post by Timchambers
OK, done: that covers all uses of the English word "soul" in the OEB, New Testament. I might go back and look at the current OT later, but will see what folks think of these first...
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Re: "Soul" and "Psyche" in the OEB

russellallen
Administrator
Wow, nicely done :)
I’ll start going through these.
I think there are very few uses of the word ‘soul’ currently in our OT books. I’m not sure it is a very helpful word nowadays when translating the OT though there might be some places it works.
Russell

On 16 Dec 2014, at 1:15 pm, Timchambers [via Open English Bible] <[hidden email]> wrote:

OK, done: that covers all uses of the English word "soul" in the OEB, New Testament. I might go back and look at the current OT later, but will see what folks think of these first...


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Re: Soul in the OEB

Coburn
In reply to this post by Timchambers
A good idea came to me on a walk. "But a true Jew is true in their private life."
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Re: "Soul" and "Psyche" in the OEB

Coburn
In reply to this post by Timchambers
Timchambers wrote
The OEB renders Rev 18:13 as:

nor their cinnamon, or spice, or incense, or perfumes, or frankincense, or wine, or oil, or fine flour, or wheat, or cattle, or sheep; nor their horses, or chariots, or slaves; nor the bodies and souls of people.

All modern translations use the words "human lives" or "human beings" for "pscyhe" here rather than "soul." So should we. Consider the following recommendation:

nor their cinnamon, or spice, or incense, or perfumes, or frankincense, or wine, or oil, or fine flour, or wheat, or cattle, or sheep; nor their horses, or chariots, or slaves bodies - that is, human lives.
Hindsight is 20/20. This is talking about modern Babylon, which many identify with New York or the USA. If we assume that context or a similar setting, bodies and souls of men would point to to the trade in illegal unskilled labor and to the brain drain. I suggest human [labour|labor] and intellect.
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Re: Soul in the OEB

Timchambers
In reply to this post by Coburn
I like that. "krypotos" seems to have the connotation of being in the secret, private, inward place of a person, which seems accurate to the modern phrase "private life."

But in keeping with the idea of using as few "new" words as possible that don't have a corresponding word in the original greek - eliminating the word "true" -  we go with this:

Rather, a Jew is so in their private life, and the real circumcision is the circumcision of the heart - by the Spirit - not by the written letter.

Or maybe this:

Rather, a Jew is so in their inner life, and the real circumcision is the circumcision of the heart - by the Spirit - not by the written letter.
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Re: "Soul" and "Psyche" in the OEB

Timchambers
In reply to this post by Coburn
Hmmm. Looking at this interlinear, the Greek phrase I'm suggesting

"kai sōma, kai anthrōpos psychē."

Which seems to mean "and bodies, and human lives." The HSBC adds a note that these two phrases put together were because:
“Bodies” was the Greek way of referring to slaves; “souls of men” was the Hebrew way.

It was partially for this reason i suggested:

"slaves bodies - that is, human lives."
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Re: Soul in the OEB

Coburn
In reply to this post by Timchambers
Timchambers wrote
In the OEB Luke 1:46-47 reads:

 And Mary said: “My soul exalts the Lord, and my spirit delights in God my Savior,

All major translations use soul for psyche and we should likely do so too.
In my work on Malachi and now Proverbs, I'm often translating nefesh as self and ruach as passion. Both words, in Hebrew, describe the breath, and refer in the first case to self-awareness as a living, breathing organism, by extension the life of the mind, and in the second case to deep breathing because of emotion or spiritual turmoil.

I just want to make the passing comment that one of these days, a translation ought to bring out the sense that Mary is speaking experientially rather than metaphysically. She's basically saying, I find myself lifting up the Lord, and from deep within comes joy in God my Savior.
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